Yeah.
Okay, So it's 12 o'clock. So let's get started.
So that's I. I don't know
Where do you phone Reference statistics go in? Is that in the virtual.
who has a question
I know you're left. I I'm going off at the old P.
No, I I was
Right.
Or the previous year's Pdf. And I I didn't know how to answer that question, so I let me look back.
What and what not number is it be? I'm just laughing because someone like texted, or emailed me and was like, Hey, this gonna just gonna be about the stuff that you can find, you know that.
Have to do with like regular stats? Or is this gonna have to do with like all of those reference stats?
And I said officially, We're just talking about how to use all my to find this stuff right?
I'm sorry.
But the other questions always come up
Right. I know. I thought this would be almost centric, and I thought, Well, maybe this is the space where I should ask that question.
No! But it. The thing is is that if people ask the questions enough, and in in enough places, then we can.
We can start getting answers right, and that's what we need to do, because it it comes up every year, and in the past, when we've had a Wednesday Webinar about this topic, it is definitely been one.
Of those things where it's like, Okay, let's talk about how to get this information out of Alma.
And then when you're done with that, let's talk about what the heck is.
I thought maybe if if you know
not an Alma question, but group study rooms of those categorized.
This question, asking us
Oh, my goodness! We've never done that we have that!
We categorize them as reserves Did those counts get added into Number 55 surf transactions
That's a completely different thing for us
Well, hang on a second. We've got 2 more members from the group coming in right now, so that is one that I've never heard before.
Yeah, and so, Lauren and Jeff, our first 2 questions do not revolve around anything related to the stuff you can get from All my other questions that relate relate to other. Well, actually, one.
Of them is number one How are people handling phone transactions for reference?
Number 53, because it says number of in person and number of virtual, and neither of those really seem to be phone.
and then this other question is that if you check out your like access to a room using Alma, is that something that would fall under reserves in some way?
hmm.
equipment.
Probably equipment for keys or something, but not reserves.
Oh, I mean unfortunately.
No.
Well so so there! But there is no question about equipment.
The question is about technology, and and keys are a kind of technology, But so we're books.
got it. Okay, Thank you.
I would say no to that one, as well
So, you know
Well, no! But again, this is like I like, I said, about the person who contacted me earlier.
They're like Is this going to be all about? You know things that have to do with finding information at Almond and said, Yeah, that's kind of what we usually start with.
it's such a And this this report, I mean, I'm it's it's laughable How bad it The questions are like they should be embarrassed.
I'm embarrassed, filling it out, and then I It's just such a joke.
I the the way they phrase these questions, even the ones, they added.
You know, I know a lot of people complained about it from last year, and then I don't think they took anyone's what they said, and instead they reworded questions to make them even more confusing.
I'll try to figure that out. Yeah, Yeah, I agree.
But I'll try to figure it out I'll let all that.
The the space, Ask all my questions. Yeah, I apologize for that.
It's just kind of ridiculous. That's just my rant
no, no, it's fine. We're We're open to all kinds of questions, and then you know what we, what we can do is make sure that we're kind of passing that along and then of course the goal right.
But I just thought maybe
Is to have everybody put phone questions in the same category, and number 53, so that we're not counting again.
You know, we're not counting things differently, because that's who did that great presentation where he had gone through all the data, through all the years and yet it was just so obvious that people have been counting differently.
In different, you know, from different. And it's so.
okay.
Well, what sorry, What What was the feeling about phone is that in in person?
Because there is a person on campus who is answering those things at the reference desk?
It's so hard to compare between college is because yeah.
Or is it It's doesn't seem virtual to me, I mean, that's not what we mean by virtual.
there's no context in which phone calls are referred to as a virtual.
I don't think that yeah, that that I mean, of course.
Now, what is a phone? Right? There's no landlines.
It need more practically everything.
you can do the ess texting the questions that you
Yeah.
But but even even phones are are very largely going to voice over IP right and and and so, there's no difference between calling someone on the phone and contacting them via Skype right so I I I don't know
Yeah.
I would. Personally I would probably count this as in person, because they I'm sure they probably were answered by the person sitting at the reference desk at the time.
And I would go along with that for kind of a different reason, and not a very good reason.
But just basically, I'm assuming that when they say in person they mean old technology, and when they say virtual, they mean new services that are you.
You are performing in A, you know, over over, you know, and that that's that's the difference.
That's how it would do it. But you know again
yeah, hey? Everybody, this is my first time joining your your team.
Hi! I was under the impression we were going to be able to ask questions about the statewide survey.
So, thank you. I'm actually really stumped, as are some people who ask this question on a list.
Serve about that. I think his questions 1819 about the classified Fte.
And then a separate question about classified hours. Does anyone recall that Because I think that we're gonna ask at the State Chancellors office?
And then we heard back that this State Chancellor's wanted is addressing it, and is going.
Just everyone hold off on submitting the survey, but I don't.
Oh, Julie, you have a question
I just I just heard that from our Ccl. Rep that that's off now, and that we're everyone because people have already submitted the survey.
They're not gonna redo it. And everyone just has to submit it on this wrong, you know.
With, however, you think, and then next year they're going to find the questions and Doug Ackerman is gonna work with them.
I don't. I want to get this thing done. I don't like it hanging over my head, so does anyone know
On fixing the question. So at this point we just put in what we think.
Okay, cause I I was trying to. Oh, yeah, I was. Thanks, Lauren. I was. I mean the number.
I'm trying to enter is like, No, it will not take a a desimal.
You know, they're not gonna modify anything
Yeah.
I think that's what you have to do like, and there ones where it asks a question, and then there's no place to really put in the answer.
as I was going through it yesterday, at least on the the people, I forgot which question it was, but it asked how many?
And then there was no place to put it except in the comments.
So I'm like, all right. I guess I'm just gonna have to like make something up just to get this thing, submitted
Maybe there wasn't the space to actually put the answer in
So so were you worried about that. 19 is repetitive.
So it sounds like beyond question. 18. I'm gonna have some more things to look forward to.
That that Michael, and then also for for Number one of them, one of the fields.
After 18 or
Right.
When you try to put in the number in our case, it's like it's not a whole number It's like 1 point, 6, 8, 5, or something It's saying that you can't enter.
I guess them all
Right. Wow! See, I haven't done that yet. I saw that in the in the Listsurf.
Yeah, I mean the part that makes no sense to me. About 19.
Is, that they qualify what they're asking for. But then don't have any other fields.
So? Why is the qualification of classified staff when it's like?
So it was like, Okay, I guess I'll just make up a number round up round out like I and I just didn't proceed past that. And But it sounds like from Laura, and i'm gonna have some more fun with other upcoming
That's the only one So were there supposed to be more The only thing I can think of that they might have been thinking of. But I don't know.
If This, is true, is that if you do, some of the other surveys, they distinguish between faculty who are in the library staff, who are in the library, and then folks like if you have a someone who runs the library, and is and is some sort, of administrator or and also if you
have support staff like a division secretary. But I'm not sure if that was the intention of this sort of separation out or not.
Yeah.
cause. That's the only thing I can think of again.
I'm confused about total professional staff, because, of course, my brain goes to well, they just want everything together, maybe.
But then it says classified staff again. So that's obviously not what they're after.
Okay.
Huh!
yes, I thank God I'm retiring, and this is my last one ever I'm here because of what I saw on the list.
Serve about there being major software glitches that didn't allow you to answer the survey, and I wondered.
correct.
I guess I guess I got my answer. They're not gonna fix it, and I should just go ahead with the link that I have, because there's never going to be another.
Sarah, you had a hand
One, Okay.
Good.
Fine. I'm just gonna make up stuff
Well, I I mean, and and yeah, I
Oh, wow, okay. We've already gone there, and it's 1211 woo. Okay, no.
But I mean I kind of have to agree with a part of that.
I mean I if they are telling you to compute partial fts.
But then won't allow you to enter partial Fds: Yeah.
What do you say after that? Right like? That's ours, has never been a a whole number.
Our staff is a whole number, but our faculty never is.
Yeah.
And yeah, you just you just you just round and like, like Lauren suggested.
If you think that they're looking for a piece of information that it simply will not allow you to enter, then you put it in a comet box and say, Hey, I think this is what you want, and that's how this is the only way I can enter.
Yeah, alright. Well, thank you very much for your time. Yeah.
It.
You you too.
Wow, yeah, I got a follow up question from somebody about.
I believe it's number 37, and I I always just actually pull those in that day, or As close.
To that day as I possibly can, so that I don't have to try to figure this out.
But sorry number following in the collection as of June thirtieth, 2022, and I remember this being an issue, because sometimes they put the data in there wrong And you're you're confused about which year, they even want the information for let me share the the question But
this this person was trying to do it now, and was talking about things that might have been deleted since this date.
yeah, it. It. It's it, I mean, you could theoretically do it.
But it's not worth it, I mean, because you'd have to say, okay.
You know, you can get the date that something was deleted by looking at something that like at if, or an item whatever is relevant, that is deleted right?
Not in repository. That's that's deleted.
and I've never played with looking at Deletes that way, and I was wondering if it anyone ever has, and what
And then the mount the modification date because the modification date will be the day that it was delivered.
However, you can't get that in the same, I mean, maybe there's a way to get it in the same report, but it seems like either you just consistently do this on July first or June thirtieth, or whatever and not too, long after july first or you just figure well, you're just
doing it, you know you're saying it's June thirtieth, 2022, but really it's October, whatever.
Right, right.
Yeah, And I think what this person had set up the problem.
They were getting some really weird numbers, but I think it was because they were trying to do it.
In one query, and so they were getting the Delees for the entire, every delete, for before that date versus just the Deletes that had happened since that date, which would of course give you a huge skew to your numbers because they were I I kind of tried to follow up because they were
saying Well, this is this is how many things it says been deleted. And I said they've been deleted since June thirtieth, because that is a massive amount of deletes.
So yeah, okay, I was just curious. If I needed played with that, because I've never.
I went in after I talked to this person and realized, Oh, this is actually something you can do.
There is a category where you can look at add deletions in that way.
I've never played with that. So I you know I hadn't even considered it, and I've always either just done it as close to that date as possible or when I missed by a month.
I go. This is close enough, and I'm not gonna bother trying to make sure that it's 100% correct
And then that other, that that person also had feedback; that they, when they ran number 38, which is number of a following, added to the collection that they didn't feel like it was cutting off at the end of that year, properly so I I I got that feedback before I had time to
go in and actually look at the at the setup of of Lauren's report.
So I was wondering if anyone else I didn't remember that as being one of the things that that Jeff mentioned before, but I couldn't.
well, because there's different strategies of of doing this.
I I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop sharing If anybody else wants to share the actual
I think, boy, I don't have it ready, but then I was just gonna say that there's there.
There would be different strategies of doing, of getting that number.
I think that you know some like. So let's think about physical items so you could look at the date that the physical item was added right, so it could be a physical.
Item that's added, Yeah, the the item record in Alma is added between July first, 2021, and June thirtieth, 2,022.
Now that should work, accept that for those of us using acquisitions, items or delete are added at the time of ordering, and we might have ordered some, stuff.
You know, months before, or you know that, or you know, on on either end, before the end of the fiscal year, before the beginning of the fiscal year, so it might be an inflated.
Number you could use at again for physical The date received.
Now that's what we would use. Here as the receiving day, and I think, Lauren, you changed it to that.
I think it is receiving date now now, the only that now that should work as long as receiving date is recorded for every item, right and I don't know for the like.
If you're again, if you're using acquisitions, that basically always happens it's part of the workflow.
if you're not using acquisitions, I don't know if it always happens
I wouldn't check because we don't use acquisitions, and and and it looked like it still worked for me.
But actually I had forgotten about that change, and I think that asked answers this person's question right, because she's looking at maybe another date where it was received on the sixth or before 6 30 20.
22 but if she's looking at that other date, then she's going.
Oh, this came in after that! So So the cut off isn't working properly, and so that might be where that's coming from.
So I'll follow up with that. Okay.
And let me share that screen. So if you look at the criteria, I'm doing print titles because I don't think any of Our other stuff is properly cataloged, so it will show up incorrectly this has been an ongoing thing. Of trying to get things back to the
way they really are really should be. But you know, so it was that change of making this receipt date
Versus What was the other date that you said Jeff
Right. The creation date, and that's what I've always used in the past.
But this for us. I was worried that when you talked about that change I was worried.
Oh, the our cell phone have a receiving tape. We're not using.
We're not using acquisitions. But when I went and looked everything, everything that I could find kind of spot checking, I did like searches by receiving date.
I'm like, oh, no, things are showing up so obviously that gets inputed somehow.
And this number at least pretty much matches up with what you know.
I would expect it to be for this particular category.
I mean you. You could probably do. I don't know if you can do this search, and all the you might be able to do a search for items.
Physical items created. You know, between X day and next date.
We're receiving. Date is empty. I don't know if.
So it's working pretty well for us. Okay.
I think you could do it in Alma, or at least I know you can do receiving data in Allman cause.
That's how I double check to make sure that I wasn't flat out.
Yeah, if you can do that in Almer, if you have to do it in analytics.
Oh, you can't even do between in in all the way you have to do like, but you could do after.
Let's see, Obviously, that's not the work. Yeah, it's almost not too flexible on that
This wasn't gonna make it, you know, completely useless to me.
Just in case anybody is curious about that one you wanna willing to share that screen.
Yeah, you can do. Receiving date is empty, and then you can just see how many items you have empty receiving days for
Sure. Yeah, Sorry I was on a different computer. My And anyway, my home computer situation is not ideal.
Hold on a second
I need to get rid of my sorry, my Alma. My zoom controls here
Okay, so you could do physical items, Receiving date is empty, and then and then, because I have a sense that we don't have receiving dates entered necessarily for a lot of stuff premigration.
So we could say, item, creation, date.
Is greater than, or is after well
Let's just say I don't know. 8 phone 21 just to see what happens here.
And then there's gonna be a lot that some of them are in are in process type acquisition. You know what this is, Really, this is.
You just can't do this in all that, because they don't give you enough flexible like.
Right.
I would like to see that the process type is not right.
and and so we can't do that in all, or maybe we can if we do
Right, right.
See if none is an option. No, it's not so.
Yeah.
You have. You have to do it in analytics, and I don't have a report ready to go.
No, that's fine. I I I mean I I again.
I'm just kind of in general. It seemed like that number was pretty much on for me so, and I I just hadn't thought of she was saying, You know I'm seeing things that are after 6 3 30 22 and I'm thinking maybe that's Why, is that they
had been received, But maybe there was the lag. Hi, Terry, how are you?
yeah. So my first question is, I had seen an email about the Chancellor survey being kind of on hold until Mr.
Garcia got back to the that. I'm sorry.
I don't know that particular librarian's name.
And we remember this little conversation
yeah. But it's not on hold anymore. You just go ahead and submit.
No.
It's they're not gonna redo any of the questions.
I just found that out today from someone who's on the Ccl.
Board, who she just told us this morning in a meeting, so they're probably gonna and announce that that they aren't gonna make changes because people already submitted and they don't want them to have to resubmit some of the questions you can't like input decimal points like it's all
Oh, okay.
a mess. So just just hits it couldn't be worse.
Yeah, it's a hot mess, right
Well, it probably could. But it's so bad, but just do the best you can, and submit it.
Okay.
and then next year, supposedly, they're gonna fix it
They're gonna review their their document before they publish it.
Okay, Okay? Well, that was my question. Number one, And then question number 2: was, you know, I'm not one of you guys.
So I don't do this stuff all the time, and I was trying to follow the path that Mike sent out. Shared.
You know you're in all the analytics, shared folders.
Yeah, I I heard Doug actorman is going to be working with them on it for next year.
Is anyone logged on right now, and I'm not.
But I can
I can.
Can somebody walk me through that real quick, because I can't seem to make that happen
Okay. So Terry: when you're in Alma.
Oh, wait hold on! I'm sorry I got to get rid of my zoom controls here.
Yeah.
Yes, that was the piece that was missing. It just said analytics.
Again: Okay, analytics, design analytics. So at that point, at that point, things well.
So, so, then, actually I don't know if this is in there either.
So I'm very literal.
Catalog: Yeah.
Nope didn't say that. Okay, Okay, I I actually got to hear Well, I got that.
Well, I started poking around, but it, but I did it.
Oh, you did. Okay.
I never saw the thing that said Chancellor's data survey, So I found folders, and I found shared folders But I didn't find this one.
Okay, So let me let me let me walk you. Yeah, So shared folders.
Then community.
Reports.
Yup
Consortium
Okay, yeah, okay.
Oh, hold on, Cacl
Yeah.
External reports.
Okay, you're getting that to show up inside your your box and
Oh, well, yeah, you can either do that or you can do in the tree here on the phone.
Yeah, I was doing it in the tree over there. So: okay, okay.
Yeah, it's it's the same. So
But the the Chancellor Survey is the one we want.
Right.
Yeah, yeah, it's external reports. And then 2,022 Chancellor's data survey.
Okay, Hang on for me. Alright, CC: Let me make.
C. A. Ccl. It's the same thing with that appears in our Alma Right, Caco
Yeah, I got that. Okay, Then you got back. Then from there you went to
22 Chancellor. Oh, sorry from Cacl.
Let me let me do that. External reports
External reports got it
And then 2022 transfer states yeah.
Okay, And that's each question, Okay, thank you. I just I I had a hard time following along on the path.
And I okay, yes, and that's that's why I'm here.
I'm very happy to be here. Okay, So basically, you guys are just doing the best you can with what you've got, and you're going from there.
that's why we do these things. Yeah.
That's that's that's an accurate statement.
Where'd you go
Terry, do you know how to copy Do you know how to copy those reports to your folder Because you don't wanna run them in there.
Okay. So we're not worried. We're pardon me.
You want to copy, you could copy that whole folder and then paste it in your folder, your from folder
Yes, I I I do know that I can do that. But basically all I'm what I'm looking for is just what you whatever videos kind of came up with because you know whereas or I'm a very small library so I don't.
Have. I don't have all of the same types of resources.
You guys. Have I don't buy electronic books at this point, so I don't.
Yes.
I don't even have I don't even have the yes to have to put in the data.
Pardon me, yeah, I I you know I just wanna make sure that I'm not completely off.
That makes things easy. That makes it easy. You got. You don't have to run all the reports if you don't run, if you
You know
But but I would even say, you know, if you're not doing much purchasing, then you don't need necessarily to rely on the Alma data. Right?
But from what it sounds like to me, the whole thing is, gonna be off, and nobody's gonna use the data for anything
I mean, you probably know you probably have a list of the books that you bought, you know, like so I don't know.
I I mean, it's probably the counts are probably the the best thing to get from this right.
Right? Yeah.
Like, how many do I have in my collection? Currently Right?
That's that's
Yes, yes, exactly. What? What is show? What does it show? My collection was, How many does it show that I added to my collection all that kind of again?
We're small, I mean. I I buy less than a 1,000 books a year.
Yeah.
That's not that hard to come up with
Okay, that that's really what I was just wanting to make sure I could navigate so I could be kind of on the same page, everybody else was.
I I can certainly determine if it's what I need to know, and what I don't need to know.
Can you show your and title added again. You know what you did your screen share.
You don't mind.
So that that that helps
Yeah, I can do that. Sorry I wasn't sure I didn't know you were talking to me.
Hey, Frozen Michael, please? Good! Thank you. The one that brought it up a little while ago
Alright. He looked really frozen, I'm running a month.
so no! And and I am having technical difficulties.
I don't think I was frozen. But yeah, as I shared with someone who was here earlier, I'm connected to other monitors, and they every once in a while they decide that they're not connected in anything and go blank and stop showing anything and stop communicating with my laptop so it's super
fun. So let me go back here
Did he breathe.
So I have a dumb question. This is my question, and you have right.
And so, which screen yeah.
Actually we Yeah, where you were. The second. Well, I guess. Third box. Where's his narrative?
Where I was.
Data updated as a vocabulary, as of today.
Does that matter? I mean, it is saying that we the prompts say, just till the end of last year, like the end of the fiscal year last year.
So this is just like Fy. I kind of like this is what's happening today.
Right, right.
So I I actually I didn't make it so. I I I would.
I think
Which is correct. Right? That's
I would turn to learn a little bit for that. But you know the criteria is right, whereas right is where it's saying where, when it was, when it was added, and that is, saying that it ran the report again, or actually that is saying that's the last time that they updated, all of the
data. I I don't. I I would actually love it to know if someone knows the answer to this.
it was, it was actually just included in the narrative, and I have a feeling.
Oh!
Whoever did these reports like had that narrative in everything, and just duplicated it.
But I it's absolutely not necessary for this report. Other things where you know, I have a feeling they just always kept that in there.
Okay.
So it doesn't. It shouldn't affect anything, and probably should not include it next time.
Right.
Okay.
Oh!
If it's gonna confuse people it, it's just what was in there, and I didn't kick out
It's just like today's day. It's actually saying, like the date.
No, it doesn't it? But what what's injured
Yeah, And that's the only thing I wanted to know that if somebody else is getting the same results, and it like, really didn't mean. Anything So as long as the fons are correct, right.
Right.
It's saying, you know, yesterday's date. So in they, I'm sure they just use that for everything, and it was just kept in like a template and reused
Yeah, and and I I think they left it in there, because if you were running other reports you would want to know how recent the data was.
Okay, okay.
And so it when you when you move from, when you move into analytics, you'll notice that on the bottom of the box here it has that date right, and I've never, I've never understood the exact difference, here because there's actually 2 times there's the data.
Updated date and then the data available date. So I think that at 1 point they update all the data right that's available to you.
And this is why, for instance, I had a long talk with someone earlier.
This semester, who wanted to make a dashboard, and it was supposed to tell them how many laptops they had checked in, and I said, You know this is never gonna work for you, because the first day of the semester you will run this and it'll say you have 100 and
27 laptops checked in because it glass updated your data.
Yesterday at 5 o 5, and so all 127.
That checked out the first hour. You were open this morning is that's not going to update.
So you're looking at this dashboard. It doesn't tell you.
And then I'm always I'm also curious right that they say that it was updated at a certain time, but then, apparently it takes 5 h for them to make that a data available to you.
So I don't. I'm not sure, you know, and I'm not sure if that's what it means, or not, because I never I didn't.
I didn't notice until recently that there were 2 different dates.
I just know that constantly. I'm looking at data and going.
This is too outdated to actually help me with what I'm looking for right now, which is why I'm so interested in being able to do better searches in the search bar here that do kind of what Jeff was showing earlier where you can narrow down things a lot of ways and find out for instance how
many laptops you have available there, because if you create a report over and at analytics that's talking about anything, it's at least you know you know, we we're open until 8 30 right?
And so if people are running reports, it can be over 24 h old.
about the data that it's sharing. So it doesn't really work for that.
right. So so working on your your cataloging processes is helpful for that.
Because if there's something that joins the laptops together like a webinar, hey?
You know, an item material type, right? Probably an item material type would would work.
Doesn't work, for, you know fast takes on what you have checked in, or what's going on with your library.
Then you can do a physical item search, and those laptops, and then look at process type loan, and then you'd know how many were out on loan or item in, you know, base status item in place you know that's right?
Yeah. That's what that's what. That's what we use it right?
Yeah, and then you can create a set of that, and then you can see how many are in the set
But but this well, okay. But is there a fast way to get to the set?
No, they I think they've talked about. I think they've talked about creating shortcuts to sets.
Because cause.
The
I think that I don't know if that's an enhancement that's coming, or if I've just seen that on the enhancement list but I yeah, that would clearly like to be able to have a shortcut to a particular set on your on the on the screen would be incredibly
Okay, right? That would be a game changer for us. Right?
helpful. Otherwise you have to go to, you know, admin manage sense and fine.
Yeah.
So the fact that I can save that set doesn't help me if I have to do all the steps to get to it, at least for me.
It's not not very helpful.
Welcome, Darren. Is there a particular question? We can help you with
alright, yeah, sorry. I wish I was more prepared when I came into this meeting.
I've just been, and back to back to back to back meetings this morning.
so I'm kind of just here a little bit, just to pick up on what other people are.
Are doing with the survey, and want to hear from from that.
This I'm new, etc., and also to the California community colleges as a whole.
So this whole survey is new to me, and so just kind of soaking.
Well, it's a mess of a survey we've been saying, and if you've followed any of the messages that have been going around there, there's been questions on.
Are they going to redo it for this year? And as I've heard this morning, they are not going to be redoing it, and just submit as it is, even though you can't use Decimal points and some questions there's no place for answers for some questions, you know
it's just do the best you can. I think that's what it is, and they're gonna fix it for next year, Supposedly
okay. That's helpful. I know that there were a few bugs identified like where it couldn't even actually progress in the survey.
Oh!
As I recall, I don't know if, tho those have actually been work done
Yeah, I did submit that, and I never got any respondents.
I would hope that those are taken care of. But if if something like that happens where you can't progress, I would definitely contact that person who who sent it out and let them know
So
Yeah, I I wrote, for I asked a question and never got a response either.
but if that happens, let let us know, and then we can follow up.
Yeah.
Maybe if if you actually can't submit, or you can't move to the next question.
I haven't done it yet, so I haven't tried it.
I've only been looking at the Pdf.
Yeah. Well, it was in Rfos before we got the Pdf: so that we could actually see all the questions.
And and so we were entering some dummy data.
well, I'll just ask the question: Has anyone on the call actually finished it?
I'm guessing. Not. I certainly have not. I'm in the same stage as Lauren.
I'm I've been playing with all of the data.
I have not actually entered any of it in the in the real form, yet
Cause I But if you're saying, Lauren, that you heard that people have actually submitted it, that would lead me to believe that at least you can work through it.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to do.
You might have empty spots that you cannot, that you can.
Yeah, yeah, people. A lot of people have submitted already.
So that might have been just something right when it came out that they fixed.
Since then.
So? How do you like working at the citrus, Darryl Darren?
I'm I'm friends with Elizabeth.
Elizabeth started at peers
yeah, you know, so far. Going great, you know, there's a lot to to absorb kind of get acquainted with in terms of just who's who's doing what and where you go for, what and things like, that?
But but great colleagues to work with, and and I've been enjoying as well the the support network here with the the Ccl.
I'll see hopefully. Got that acronym right?
Oh, it's not that many. There's just Ccc.
Ccl. Ccc. Co. There's I think, 2 or 3 Ccl.
There's a lot of acronym stored. So lot of alphabet soup
Yeah.
going through this video. It should be pretty fun and then pulling out the parts where we actually have something to say about the survey, Hey, Jeff, what about this?
Anyone have any exciting plans for the weekend
I don't remember, but I've I've heard from a few people.
Il question, which number is that again 54, 55
Nobody replied the list, but several people replied to me, saying that they were just as puzzled as I was, and that probably we just leave those. We.
Answer the first 2, and leave the other ones playing
Because the first 2 you are basically clear, right? It's like, What did you lend out to other libraries?
And what did you get from other libraries? And then the I mean, the last one is clearly a typo, right?
55,
Oh, okay.
What everything about this change feels like to me is that someone looked at at at the other surveys that we do, and kind of got the idea that there were more questions but didn't really understand why there were more questions or or what they were supposed to do right?
So
It's like, and then and then and then it's like it was a draft or something right like they were thinking, which one works which one works. Let's go with these first 2 and then they never removed the the other 3.
Because in I think it
Oh, my goodness! Well, no! Because an acl right? And this is how I ask for my for my data from the person who does Il here.
They just distinguish between things that are returnable and non returnable.
as far as Il. So, whether it's a book, or whether it's a copy of an article that you sent off.
So for each category there's 2 sections.
So it's not just how many did you provide to another library?
That's how many returnable and not and non returnable did you? Did you?
Did you? Did you provide? And so I feel like, maybe.
Well, I guess you could argue that they that they want to know if you received ils, that you could not fill
No! Why.
No, I mean you know it. This is interesting information. How much you getting from other libraries.
How are you for what? Are you providing to other libraries? This, that's just, you know, inherently interesting.
And it's interesting to compare, if you can actually get the data.
But I don't know. That's the only thing I can think of from I don't know.
Well, if we start doing the you know the this this they really should adapt this.
How many came up on your screen? No.
If we end up doing the the rapid O where we are, you know, sharing articles with each other, I mean, that's that would be good to see, and that's When this will need to be updated i'm also what is they mean by up at the top examples.
Yeah.
Yeah, well.
I have no idea. I feel like like. Maybe that's Iliad, right?
That's some kind of corruption of Elliot
Right? Yeah.
And what can, and what kind of Ils are not patron initiated?
they are like farmers, something old. I was doing that student worker back like almost 20 years ago.
Oh, really!
Is my question. I I I don't ever. I don't ever, you know.
Just say, Hey, I want to get you get to you a book from another library.
Right.
It, it, It It's an instance where explaining something makes it less clear, Right?
I know you didn't ask for it. But let me just do that for you.
Oh, yeah, yes, that oh.
And and every year, I think I've done this what 3 times already I should know how to handle this.
There will be no surprises, and every year there's something like this where I just go.
and it's it's last year I I believe it was all this.
The mistakes that happened last year were brought to their attention, and we asked, How can we actually use this data, you know?
So this was brought up to the Chancellor's office last year, and so for it to be even worse this year, after we contacted them, and obviously they didn't contact anyone back.
this is just like, yeah.
It was a passive, aggressive move.
Don't ask us for the data you give us. You do that, And we're going to give you really bad questions.
you know you thought those were bad. I'll show you what spam, hey? Was the?
Was that question about research consultations, research appointments is that new?
I don't remember seeing that one before
this one are the Orientations, or
Not the orientation. There's one that's specifically about appointments, right
Yeah, I didn't remember. What was it there last year?
Oh, that if there's one that's specifically about appointments, then that would be new, because
You. Okay, I didn't remember seeing it last year, but it it could have been there
Does anyone have any idea, as far as number on that one?
No, no, I think they. I'm pretty sure they asked that last year
It's Yeah, it's getting there. Go up a little more.
Not facilitated by a library. And that's another.
Okay, Well, yeah, for last year's, or or what cause
I don't know what they mean. Yeah, I I don't really have 60.
None of that makes sense
yeah. Why would this be interesting
That's asynchronously online, but not facilitated by a library
What? E: Okay, Yeah. Synchronous? Synchronous: Yeah.
And well, and what does facilitated mean? Right like?
Yeah, if someone out there
last year there was question 52, and it says, Identify if any of these are offered synchronously, online facilitated by a librarian, and then it gives you the Checkboxes are core specific instruction sessions slash plantations, then there's tours and then
right.
There's general workshop, and then there's the other.
Oh, I guess Hmm! Is that one on? I know we accounted those.
Or is that gonna be on? Is that on the other survey that we do?
But there is an appointment. Yeah, right?
I thought that was on this one somewhere
Oh, I think it's words just reference like, go go up more.
I I again it Yeah, a point. We moved away from
53. Thank you.
yeah, 53 reference transactions
Yeah go to like she was. She said it was
Why would it be Okay, I'm not even gonna get into that part.
Library consultations, appointments. Oh, yeah.
Oh, that is
I don't think Yeah, I think before they just asked you, How do you contacted people, but didn't ask for separate numbers.
Is that what you're saying? About 52 last year, Patty
I? Why I was just reading what I was asking Yeah, I didn't know for numbers.
Yeah, you're right. You didn't know it just like a check.
Just check it on
But it did have another section like after I gave you those 4 options for then there was a line, and it didn't actually give it a number.
Yeah, it just yeah, it. Just it just acknowledged that we were doing things differently because we were remote
But I said, student soon participants total, if no
Right, and that they do that again for the other types, but not for appointments here, because it's that's And then this, of course, gets into.
I don't know if you guys have this debate on your campus.
we keep seeing the line between Like is everything that we do.
Instruction is an appointment, a reference transaction, or is an appointment instruction.
Does it matter which thing it is? How do you count it?
What is it? What is its Yeah, What is its function? Because for us appointments really replaced workshops.
They are They're kind of one on one workshops, and so previously we've been putting them more under this than under reference.
I don't know that it really matters, but it's it's been a topic of conversation, Deborah.
I'm on the floor, so I'm trying not to talk too much.
Welcome. Do you have any particular questions
can we go back to question 37 and 38 I mean, please, sorry
Okay. So it says, number of the following in the collection: as a last fiscal year.
So. And then number 38 is number. The following, added to the collection: Okay, when I run those numbers.
Well, if you were to run it, wouldn't they be close enough in both questions?
Your numbers, particularly for ebooks owned like, I'm getting 2 really different.
no, they would be very different, because one is just how many, like the total that you have, and the other is, How many did you add that year?
And just in that year, so the number that you just added in that year would be much smaller.
Bye.
Oh, see it just just took for me to like. Think about it!
That I did A. I missed the number, So so okay, it makes sense.
Okay. Goodbye. There's just crazy. Inconsistency in the survey right?
Now
Because, for instance, here added to the collection, Okay? Physical. Oh, wait. No.
I was thinking of that. It was online. Never mind, never mind.
is that online physical audio somewhere else, that really confusing something.
And oh, right
There's one that's physical online or no audio visual media periodicals, Right?
right, Can I ask a question about on 37, with e-books owned when I ran?
I think when I ran it ran it, using the way the analytics set up the shared.
You know, Alex, and just in the default it was, including oer and OA collections.
Yeah.
Yeah, So so there's a prompt in that report.
Are we? What what are people thinking about that in terms of ownership
Right that that allows you to select particular electronic collections.
Right.
And so the the point, so that the method would be when you look at the like, it's good to run it without any prompts first to see what's there, and and to exclude the collections that you do not own so that does also presuppose that you're on and Alma
You've created, you know, and maintained electronic collections that represent collections that you own versus things that are oer or subscription.
Right.
So so it would be own, so like, you know. All of us have, or most of us, anyway, have all the these old epsco titles, that you know we're bought as a consortium.
So that would be a base of whatever it is, 15 to 20,000 for most, and then whatever you bought from, you know Epsco and gale and Proquest, or whoever else over the years.
is anyone comparing their numbers while they're doing it?
the survey like to what you submitted last year.
but no, no, oer would not we? We do not own the oer
I need chance cause I'm just looking at this, and we had a big difference in the number of the for, like the call what's in the collection was from last year to this year, and we're talking over a 100 50,000 more.
Which way?
Last year, then this year, and I'm like
So this year So I'm looking at 37 like ebooks owned. So that's the number.
Did you do? In which category
That's in the total collection, right? Not just not just what we added this past year.
So you're saying, you you you, your total collection of ebooks number in the number is 155,000 more this year than it was last year.
Less this year than last year, yeah.
Less this year. Right? So this is why nobody should rely on the data that we submit in this right?
Okay, yeah.
Because that means either. You were making a mistake last year, or you're making mistake this year, hey?
Yeah, right?
Sorry there's there's less this here than last year, right
so last year I it was reported over like 211,000, a little bit more.
Like, yeah, okay, So maybe
hey? And that's that's the key thing, right is, how are you defining ownership?
That's a lot to own. That's a lot too
Okay. Oh, my gosh.
And this is where
But I think for ebooks, it's pretty clear.
Well, but I think that that's what might have gone wrong for them last year, Right?
Okay.
Because that would be my biggest. That would be my my easiest guess, for the difference between your 2 numbers is that one year, you're actually polling what you own.
Okay.
And last year you pulled everything that you had access to, but that would assume I don't know about your guys.
Okay.
Your collections right. I don't know if you subscribe, subs
and I have to touch, and I have to talk to the person that actually does the ordering.
Right. But you I would just I would. We The question The first question I would ask is, do we subscribe to things that have ebooks in them?
And we're all of those subscribed ebooks counted last year.
But yeah, okay, okay.
And then this year, someone is actually counting the ones that you have purchased, and that could be, those could be 2 very different numbers.
Okay.
Actually, yeah.
Yeah, our own total is a little less than 33,000.
Okay.
Right. It's nowhere Near 200,000
They are for us most definitely, because the vast majority of the ebooks that we have access to are through a database, and we do not own them
Okay.
And and then our total that's the I split it into owned, and so subscription or a so. Our subscription, or open access in Alma is about 365,000
So the grand total is about 400,000, but only only about 33,000.
You.
Right.
And though, although our numbers are smaller, I think our present percentages are very similar to what Jeff just described So, and it's always been a a challenge to figure out which things are owned versus
With those are owned
Hello!
Right, But that's that's just part of the ongoing process of figuring out Alma right?
Versus not, I mean I can I know what they are, but getting the the system to tell me accurately what they are before I use these reports, was difficult for me.
Because Alma does give you the tools to do that right?
That's I. I mean, that's that those are the electronic collections.
And so now, if you have, I guess if I had a lot more owned collections then I'd have to figure out a new strategy.
But for now it's like few enough, but I just know which ones they are, and can then isolate them in the reports
And Lauren the only issue with not using analytics for the e-books, is then, when you have the same titles from more than one provider, you're not going to be duping them unless you're doing.
Well, that wouldn't happen for the most part, for the own e-books.
That in excel
That's true.
I don't think we on multi what we do own multiple meetings. We've purchased multiple copies of certain titles that are used a lot. Some We own 10 copies
But that's that's titled, not not license that we're accounting.
So yeah, yeah.
Well, and and that's gonna be, for I I don't know about A/C rl, but ipads.
You're supposed to report everything
But it might not be that many really that you're off.
Oh, I see, Deborah! You asked, How do I get Title counts from the providers for Ebsco.
I write to them, because you can't really. I don't think you can break up your owned ones that were part of that net library collection, and once we purchased since then, so I asked them for a list of might owned titles which is also probably what you want if you're if
you're uploading those into Alma. You need those Isbn which might be good to update for for proquest.
I know how many I have, because it shows right on the the screen how many of them I own, and how many are part of a Dda or or subscription for gail.
I believe we own all of our gale ebooks.
I think for them. I might just do a blank. One of them.
I do a blank search, because everything through Gale we own all of our ebooks. So if I just do a blank search, I believe it will give me the number of titles, or might give me a list of titles, and then I export it.
To see the number
Oh, yeah, yeah, Ecm: Well, okay, yeah, it might be an Ecm: But I I know I I think I'm pretty sure I've had to contact Eco. There's wasn't as easy.
As just downloading like you can with others
and then I'm thinking of Who else? We have books, and then we have.
We have books also also through Cambridge, and it's easy to do a title count through there, and we own those so
And then when it's regarding purchases, I've just, I usually would, just, you know, Look at either.
I know how many through, but you can rent most of these.
You can run a report to see how many were added during that time, but also you could just use whatever else you use to for your procurement, to know what titles you purchased, and how many I ours is because when it comes to the ebooks and we're 9 colleges in one institution, some of these
reports get super messy because we we have, especially when it comes to ebooks and availability, because I mean, there's every combination possible of just 2 of our colleges habit 3 of our colleges this college and this college.
Yeah, I think we've got it easier here, because even though we're for colleges, we all have access to all of our appsco and proquest and gale stuff.
I mean, all of our e-books. Really. So it's just interesting, because then we report our spending separately.
But then, of course, when how, when we ask how many books are, have were added, It's a lot more than we pay for, because we have access to stuff that the other 3 colleges pay for, but since we all since there's no like you know 2 colleges have access to this and you know 3 colleges have
So then, in your reports, it looks like you guys aren't aren't spending very much.
access to this other thing. It's not that complicated
and and and you don't do a crl, so you don't have to unravel, because sometimes Acrl asks very specific questions about where the money came from.
And that's true it it. It's yeah.
Hmm.
We're we're, we're
Well, so we're we're starting that we're trying to sort that out in all man, right.
All my acquisitions, gives you a lot of flexibility for recording that stuff So if we did start to do a 0, we'd probably take a look at that and then adjust our funds to you know to reflect.
For the thing that you're buying, either If it didn't come from the live your library, and I try to avoid those questions as much as humanly possible, because it is it is like trying to unravel like all of the pay different pay codes out there.
You know
Yeah, So Good: idea. Steve. Did you have any particular questions, or just wanted to?
That to make those easy to answer.
Yeah, Okay, Nope.
Mostly you're just gonna hear us complaining about what a train wreck the survey is this year.
just lurking. Thank you. Bye, Everyone
I see your lips moving, Michael, but we don't hear you
yeah, I muted myself, and then started talking. It was a plan I I said, I don't have any other specific questions that anyone has passed on to me, and since I haven't done it myself.
I'm I'm just trying to look through and see what kind of things tend to come up for me.
It's always the the kind of like what Patty was talking about as far as number of items owned.
It's always looking at that old number and trying to figure out how badly I messed up that one Why, it's so different than the new one.
And then where I'm going from there, and and taking enough notes that I'm gonna be consistent or try to be consistent.
Oh, okay. Maybe you're on the phone.
I I'm Jeff. Can you tell me I because we always do the acl?
But if a lot of those complicated questions are not now that I know, we don't have to, and we only have to do the ipads part.
If those complicated questions are part of a serial, I'm not going to I'm not gonna do those.
so it really is. You only have to do the ipads.
Heyro was always done here, and then somebody. I think it was a Cassandra River college, said, Well, it's not required We're going to stop, and we looked at it and realized the same, and and then, according to him now I I don't know if this chain maybe he said at the
I don't know why we always thought we had to do the acro.
time, that we didn't have access to any of the data from Acrl.
Yeah. That's true. So it's like I. Those things make me mad.
But you had to like pay for it well, and and so to me, that's like, Forget it, you know, like I mean, I have a policy where I don't even I don't even answer surveys when people send out survey questions if they haven't said that the results are going to be open access you know
like I'm writing a paper. I'm going to submit it to a scholarly journal.
That you won't have access to. Please answer my questions.
Yeah.
It's like No.
Right. I feel the same way
With the pay for it. You have to pay for the report.
okay.
That shows all of the results. They don't just give it to you.
my understanding, and I actually haven't looked for it in a while is that they they do release some sort of very high level view for free but it doesn't go in enough detail.
To be of any use, and I've been arguing with my Dean over the last 4 years about the the balance between the workload, that they that doing the report is, and what we actually get back from it.
and last year, actually for me, it was extremely good to you.
I don't know if anyone else experienced this, but I had a lot of difficulty just entering data and we've switched deans, and I'm going to sort of once again posit.
That we don't really need to do all of this that is, long as we're pulling the numbers that we need for ipads and making sure that we're getting that done in time because you know the only real benefit to a Crl: and it's kind of a backwards benefit is that once
you've done it. It very neatly, pulls out your ipads numbers, and you can use them.
well, and I think, Patty, you'd probably say that it doesn't always transfer really easily Didn't you have that problem So that's not always the case.
I mean I I don't mind ipads to be that bad, you know.
It's it's a little bit more. There's a few more things than in the Chancellor Survey, but they're sensible things for the most part, like you know, usage of various types and couple more categories of what you spend
yeah, I do. I really do appreciate the the, you know the narrative that explains everything about those questions include this: do not include this I mean that makes it really easy and compared to what we're dealing with right?
yeah, I would like to not do the Asl. And mostly because not the work that it is for me.
For Library relate directly with library related things, but that they ask some questions about funding and about You know how much it costs to run your library that our division's secretary has to spend a lot of time, on she's gotten pretty good.
me is that in the future I should schedule this for what hour?
Not to so learning process
I do have a very general question. I just wonder if you could point me to where the best information is just to get started.
Course, I've run analytics. I did this last year, but I do recall last year there was some wonderful email or some other resource that like pointing me to where to start within analytics And just sort of how to get started is is there a document like that this year.
That I should be looking for
there, there is something, an email, but we can definitely show you that I I'm not any great place to show that, but hang on 1 s.
Is it just sitting an email or just need to go from there?
Let me get back to that
No, come on, sorry, my my screens keep on blinking out
Looks like it logged me completely out of Alma
So
And, to be honest, I might need a Jeff or Lauren to do an assist here.
As we start going through the steps. So if you click on analytics and you go into design analytics
And then, if you go to the catalog, there are shared folders, and of course it's dumping me right into where I have them saved in my folder But that's not what you want to see
Jeff Lauren Where do I go?
not all that community reports Consortium C A.
Ccl.
Yeah, see, I always start in the raw community reports shicken sources
External.
Let me see if I can make this a little wider
And then the 2,022
yes, I make a copy of this into my personal folder, as I recall great thanks.
Yes.
Even though I've done it a 1 million times, it never sticks in my head.
so, Lauren, Have they gotten that? Oh, off issue sorted at your college
yeah, yeah, not yet. There they they have to. They wanted our spring share, contract or districted before they could, would agree to put in that spring, connect to that spring share app So I've sent them that, and then I wrote yesterday and staff for an update and nothing yet So hopefully it'll happen too, because
You're the one who were telling me that
things are starting to fail now.
Yeah, that was us earlier this week. It was an absolute mess.
Yes, yes, we were very lucky. I I was not aware of how many other things it was affecting, and that it's a apparently.
There's a number of different systems on campus that are having difficulty.
And then also, if you yourself, or have connections, you know, from your outlook account to other email, you know accounts Apparently that's not working for people either.
and Steve, Sorry you're gonna hear some analytics analytics work, group business censure here with Lord, Did Did you take a look at that form that Caroline made
I I felt like it was good, but then it kind of assumes that people are are contacting with a problem about how analytics is working versus a solution.
yeah.
Oh!
Hmm.
Yeah, it's not really if you're having an issue.
For how to do something in analytics, but I can't think. I can't think about how to reword it in a way that makes sense
It could be an issue, but more like if you have a question about how to do something, not It's not necessarily a problem.
Yeah, Yeah, is, it's more, it's more geared towards, like.
Yeah.
You know what's your analytics problem, And it's like No, I think we need to.
Yeah, we need to reward that. To what do you want analytics to do for you?
I'm having a feeling maybe this was just sort of copied over from another one where that made more sense
Because I don't really think that we're gonna have many people who their analytic issue re relates to the network sound manager.
But maybe I'm not thinking big enough
Right right, but it would be a ticket. Oh, I don't know.
Yeah.
Which reminds me, Jeff, was the method that you were talking about with Mary.
The same thing that Tim was talking about, or those 2 different having had time to look at that video
No, it was a it was a wiki page, you know the from the Csu's, so there were a couple of things.
In Mary's thing. Yes, the the so Tim linked Tim's on this a link to a page where the Csu's have advice on how to combine network zone stuff and institution and institution zone staff to get those Counts and the question is like I can't test this Lauren can't test
this There's Kansas that doesn't seem like it works right, and you know.
So, then if it does, then ultimately this should be part of the You know the reports right the th.
This is the data that people need both for the Chancellor Survey, you know, for e-books, and then also for the for the ipad stuff
I mean, I guess it's true, Right? No, so I was thinking, it's not that important that the most owned Ebooks are going to be in your Iz, except that the net library stuff.
Is now in the Nc. Right? So that's significant.
Right, that that yeah, And that was that was a big change for us, and it took a little bit of adjustment to me for me when I was doing the numbers this year.
Right.
So this is like a, and filtering by the group members is not totally straightforward.
So. Oh, I see they're using contains any. I guess that makes sense and I guess they're just saying the type in your code, and that should work because contains any is, basically it's just like it's like, like it's a it's. A pattern.
I think. No, it's not. I don't remember how contains any works, but because when you look at the groups I can't remember how he has it arranged.
okay.
Right.
Maybe he has the groups arranged so it's just when I look at the groups, I see lots of different combinations, and so you if you want to catch all of the ones that include, you and maybe contains any, works, I really don't know I find the the groups, it's it's
a little bit tricky in analytics to to make them work.
But and then I don't think fulfillment is really an issue, because maybe that's an issue.
When when you're doing resource, sharing, it's for us.
Okay.
Right, That's that's what I'm after, is the inventory, and I've continued to do it basically by daunting a whole bunch of spreadsheets and and and doing excel massive magic.
It's mostly value inventory.
Yeah, I mean, it. It's interesting. Oh, okay, Both of the leads are not.
And I'd like to stop doing that if it all possible. It would be really nice not to have to do that part, because it's not fun
Well, because I've well, I mean, I know that a lot of it is actually our it's stuff that I need to fix, and how things were entered.
In the first place, you revolutionized my entire life. What was it that you said that you don't use it all at your college at the meeting on Wednesday?
I have no confidence in analytics to to accomplish these goals
Oh, well, item policies! It's not that. It's not. It's not.
Something that we basically base everything on. Yeah.
I mean, it's legitimate to use item policies.
But it causes so much. Yeah, it's yeah. I think a lot of what happened to us is, we were coming over from a system that was poorly put together.
In my opinion, with Wms. And we just said we brought it.
Alma could do these things much better, but we brought over the same problems because we set up things to same way.
We just realize for ourselves. Oh, really, yeah.
And now we're discovering. Oh, look! All of the same problems that we had before, Because we're we're set up a certain way, and we could have we could have gotten out of that.
If wow for me, it was just that whole thing where I was just trying to get it done.
Yeah.
Yeah, we were fortunate because I I mean, I had nothing to do with setting up our previous.
So I did things very quickly with thinking through the the results of what would happen.
System. But It had been set up pretty well, so that when we were migrating things over and sort of basing up the new system on the old system things worked pretty well
Yeah, I didn't let. I don't like any, and like anything about how we were set up before.
And then I think what happened was, I asked a question about changing it.
I think the whoever I worked with basically said, no, just transfer all of these things over.
And so we have all of these just with dupe. There.
Yeah, it's just there's lots of duplication.
There's lots of things that I think you could work a lot.
Hmm.
Well in the fulfillment Configuration is the most for me.
It's the hardest part of of all that I I just get.
I feel like, and I feel like the way that they encourage you to set it up was as with everything and all that they wanna allow, the most flexibility possible.
You could use different different ways to to organize information than we're currently using
Right. So they say, you know, I have a separate policy for every user group and every
Yeah, Well, that's what they should be told us to do, right.
That That is exactly how we're set up, and it's just a hot, but it's a hot mess
But it and it's like, well, okay. But can we streamline this right?
Because we don't in. General, for a lot of things.
We don't have distinctions between these different user groups, so can we combine them.
And then have fewer of them, and then identify which ones are not needed, and all that stuff.
Yeah, we.
Yeah, that was our entire problem is in our mapping tables.
We mapped over everything and never too much in the previous system.
I have a question. It's not analytics related so.
And maybe I'm just trying to see if you guys know something or can lead me somewhere.
So, and I'm hoping I get this right cause.
This is done by my cataloging, technical processing in it.
so we use Gobi for ordering, and so I guess there's a profile created an Elmer.
But so when the goby and go we now we'll talk to each other when they order.
Through Goby that's imported into Alma. And so creation really bad Bib, brief bib records are created.
Okay, when the actual piece comes in, Mike, the tech tech processing staff will create a we'll actually get a better record.
So at some point there's 2 records. So there's the old theory, the old record.
They came in with the Gobi ordering, and then they start creating, importing another record kind of thing.
They pick a better record. But do you know, if in the profiles that are created, it's if there's a way to suppress those order records from the Get-go when they come in, I'm trying to say
yeah, if it's not in that and in well, and by the way, you're using the Api is that the Govia Api you order in Gobi, and then it comes in automatically.
Yeah, that's okay. So So the what you want to do, I mean, So let me ask if this would work for you It's not in the it's not in the integration, profile, but through all. The you.
Can suppress records that are in process of acquisition, so it wouldn't wouldn't matter if it's Govy or something else.
Nothing that is in acquisition would show in one search.
Thanks. Yes, I'm gonna say yes. I don't have my tech process in person here, but I'm gonna say yes.
Okay, yes, Because we cause it's creating problems like, you know, the reference desk is not want to see order records.
Is that what you want to do? Okay, So that
You know, or and we don't want our students to see something that's on order.
We we do the same thing
And so right now, and it's right now. So it's like If so, it's like a double work in a way, or I can get streamlined to, but if we can just prevent it from the get-go because when it comes in then the person is processing the actual piece in hand should delete
Yeah.
the record, but it it should have been suppressed already from the beginning.
Yeah, and and this is just a configuration thing It's it's very easy.
It's not. It's just a code. And let me just find it, because here it is.
Okay, sure.
Here it is. I'm just gonna send you the link
Yeah, here, here's the link to the online help page.
And then I'll tell you which section of it to look at.
Yeah, it's right there at the beginning. So it's yeah, it's a configuration manual discovery.
Okay.
So okay.
Other exclude process types from discovery, indexing
And so you know the process type would be acquisition, and there may be other process types like we.
That's what I should do.
does that does that work, Jeff? Because we were looking into that.
And then Alex. From Valley College, was doing some investigation, and she said that needed to be done like at the network zone level, to not display lost items.
We exclude lost also. So if an item is lost, it will not show in in premium
Is that true or not? Or is it working for you
Oh, so I It's definitely working in that. When we, when we have a bid, we do not see the lost items on it.
Okay.
Now I guess the question would be, if we only have a lost item, and it's an Nz record with the record show without any like locations. Right?
Okay.
That's that's what I would extend, and I I would think if that was happening, that we would be coming across it right now.
It's been a long time since we've come up like it used to happen, or like, when we first implemented we would come across these records that were physical dips that have no holdings but we that's it's.
Yeah, right?
Been a long time since we've seen that, So I think it happens.
Okay.
But what you're saying is the kind of thing that does happen right like that. Dnz kind of gets in the way of some of these things.
Right.
And I'm assuming you guys don't cause you were asking about your suppressing your in process records, Patty.
So I think it's working
So they're showing right now. But currently we I don't know why we have it set up this way, but our show and people can place hold on them so they can see something's coming.
Sometimes the book ends up in a location which isn't a holdable one.
Yes, I mean in my own library. You have that
In process they can place the whole, but then it ends up in the new book collection and so that hold isn't going to go through. It's going to just be hanging there.
Some people like that Yeah.
Well, there should be something in acquisition where the it's normally.
When there's a request it will show up when you're receiving the item
That's where I found things hanging
Well that we're not to up here. We're not doing it that way.
what like when you like when you click done, or something
we create the record when we get it, we're not creating the the record, but we put them in process while we're working on that.
Oh!
And so that's when it could be. But other colleges like this we weren't.
We're not having as many problems, but at Valley College, where they do a lot of ordering through Gobi and all.
And that's where I've seen a lot of requests place on items that are now not in an area.
So the request is there. But the book didn't end up in an area that allows requests if that makes sense.
Yeah, it's like you order something for reference, And you knew it was never going to be requestable.
So something, figure out.
yeah, And there's a default location sometimes that that people.
And so if you wanted something not to be requestable, then you'd want to change.
The holding to a non requestable location, like, even while it was in process.
But another thing we found is that even though you can exclude these processes from discovery, it doesn't exclude them.
It doesn't mean that they won't. They can't be requested.
So so let's say you have a multi. You already have an item, and let's say, that item is missing, or is checked out for the semester.
Well, or or is, even though let's say that that that item that you already have Is in a non requestable location.
Okay, you order one. That isn't in in the in a requestable location which does not show in primo.
I think that explains something that's been going on with some of our collections that I did not.
But the one that is in the non-requestable location shows, and the request button then shows
So I made it that this was very poorly documented, because it turned out that well, you it's easy to exclude things from publishing the primo to Primo V.
It's not as easy to make them not requestable, or, in fact, you can.
That might be it because we've been having
There's a code, there's actually configuration like code table that allows you to exclude missing items from being requested, but not lost.
Items lasted yeah, So
That's the problem we've been having. That's the prop is that in every in every scenario loss does not behave the way that I want it to to behave, and I'm wondering if I need to change something in this table that you showed us.
But I thought I already did, and so
No, it's actually in the. It's in the terms of use their notes, and it's in the fulfillment units.
Okay, okay, Yeah, Because Yeah, this is definitely an issue for us.
And then it creates the problem that I've had it.
Every library I've ever worked at, which is what is the definition of all of these words?
How do you keep an consistent? If the system doesn't treat them?
The way that you want to treat them as as as something that's lost, right, or something that's missing.
So I hold on. I created the whole page on this
And so what we've been doing is moving things from lost to missing, even though it's that creates confusion about about what?
That action, what that? What actually happened to that item, and what the definition of its process is.
So you've got 2 things that are in the same collection.
Oh, yeah.
thanks for sharing that this way. I'm sure I'm gonna follow it.
So you have live answers just for internal? Or is this something that anyone could be on that you?
They They they'd have no reason to come across it.
Right.
But
Oh, yeah.
Oh, some some. It's pretty high up in the Google, though results actually Yeah, Yeah, cause you know, there's a there's a lot of all the stuff that's poorly documented right?
But our same status, but have completely different pass getting there, and then that causes chaos
What.
Yeah.
Very good. You know what I've noticed is, you know, what keeps happening is out.
So you cut you out. You put in the keywords and you get the the Sunni stuff, and in certain cases you get ours
when I look at our guides and look at the statistic on our guide, like the one that shoots above everything else, like seriously, like 5,000 views a week, is Our our fake news.
Guide for some reason, and you look at the the referring URL.
And it's usually just Google or being like, it must be coming up really high in the results, because everyone is using it.
Hmm.
Okay, okay.
Very few are internal links. It makes me think we gotta update it because it's really not that good.
Cool.
that's all. Everybody's responding to this is this is like the constant response to success, Right?
Oh, that reminds me
Like. Oh, no, it really isn't as good as it should be.
I another question you. You showed your your screen.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'll show you
okay.
So yeah, that's from pre-o analytics.
So now I'm curious about your you had a a widget, Jeff that showed primo uses
It's just it's outdated. It's just what appears at the top
Right, which is separate from all my analytics.
Right.
Where? Where is which? I spend 0 time? Which is why? Yeah, I need to learn
Right.
that would be so depressing I I'm not gonna look at that, because that would just make me sad.
So this is nice, you know, if we happen to be talking to administrators, or whatever you know, we can say, Yeah, we get over 25,000 sessions, you know, when our search Yeah, you know on a in some of our peak, months, you know, 25.
To 30,000 sessions like not a small number, you know.
I'm sure it's true here, too.
I think most of what I would be interested in, and I.
And this is a constant conversation here. But I never thought about not. It's not going to solve it, but finding out what's going on is that I'm trying to figure out how many people.
End up in primo trying to do database searches for databases that aren't in primo because we have this constant battle that are unfortunately our one search.
So yeah.
Is not a one search so? And so if I yeah, if I could see what
Well, you you can. You can kind of help if you use research if you use the resource recommender, you know that can be helpful right cause.
Right.
So because we are biggest thing is that we want people to end up in background reading databases first and and every time I've tried to set that up, this is just my L.
Of of I I can't. It's partially because our background we've re research databases don't play all that.
Then you get something like that. No.
So there's there's the banner right. The but it has never worked for us I have a case in it that's now like 2 and a half years old or 3 years old, even because I think it was during implementation.
That we realized it didn't work but I have it on a test view here.
And there would be some Css changes. We'd need to make, too.
But you know, I mean in theory, I like this idea
Well, with with with primo, right
So, oh, yeah, yeah, So that's like, that's how J.
Oh!
Store? Does it right, or is
Hello! Jasonar!
You know a lot of times. That was from Wikipedia.
Do they still do that about? Give you like a little blurb from, you know, sort of reference source.
Bye, but but like it's just this is a problematic feature.
Yeah, I know.
How that is
For a lot of reasons like they don't seem to be considering the date right.
I'm sure that we have homelessness in in our in our gale resources, or whatever for more recent than 2,013.
That's a problem.
and then these often then go to Epsco ebooks, which are not, you know, linked at the title, at their link, at the title, level, not at the entry level, Yeah.
And that's my problem. Right there is that the things that we want them to use are not resolving to entry level.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, this is going to be title level
What I do is we, you know well it doesn't work, as that perfectly, but we often use the reference entries where we're showing our orientations, and stuff instead of we used to go to.
Galey books and stuff, but now we also have, you know, some other Credo reference, and others that work well with with Alma.
Yeah.
So I will, you know, do a search, and then, like one of the first things, we'll go to under resource Type is reference. Entries.
So
Yeah, and that's good for instruction. It's just that.
It's difficult. It's it's unlikely that students discovered that themselves.
And so then. And so, then, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, And so you want things to be. I like again in theory, I really like that featured, you know, Block at the top.
It just has not been implemented well, and and half the time for us.
And and it's almost the definition of of how articles are named, and the kind of background resources that you want people to find that it's not a distinctive name at all.
So expecting them to sort through just a regular search and get to homelessness.
It's broken like the link goes nowhere. And so it's like
And Cq. Researcher versus all the other homelessness that's out there just doesn't work.
So it's yeah.
Although I have noticed that we are getting more, it is more likely that we will have a decent, just reference type item that will come up like Lauren said.
We just got Credo reference, and I like it, because before we were only relying on gale Ebooks for our background information, And that really depends on you purchasing the most up-to-date books, and ours were often not very up to date in some areas not that everything's
Umhm!
great in credo reference, but at least they have a lot more current titles.
Yeah.
We we trial it several years back. Maybe it's gotten better, but I just the sources that were in it.
Sometimes it's better in galey books, but overall I I'm I like credo reference, for it's kind of easier to use, you know, than the gale ebooks.
I just didn't think we're very good. I mean it was like, yes.
some of the results coming up are pretty like, Why would you ever use this?
So it depends on what you're searching for.
Right.
See it doesn't happen that much for us with Gale I mean, we buy.
But that happens unfortunately, with Gale too.
Oh, we don't do that at all. Every few years we get some money
Maybe we buy about 30 to 60 titles a year. Yeah, we have like we have, like an organized yearly thing where we go and of course we're for colleges going in, and they give us a discount, and and all that.
And so so it's like a commitment, and so, and we replace old editions, you know, as as part of that So it's just it's a little bit more curated and then we've also tightened up what we'll buy from them you know like.
We have tennis standards of what we're looking for, because we want it specifically to be that stuff that answers those questions.
Yeah.
You know background about a particular top. They have other stuff as well.
And not the stiller Junkie Filler stuff. Who is?
Yeah, oh, my God! Sometimes people select like we have a thing where we send these things around, and people like, look at the titles, and they check it off like yeah, that looks good.
And you look at what it is, and it's like far less useful than anything you would get from a simple Google.
Search right? It's like some address associated with an organization, you know.
Who Who's who
It's like, really
Yeah, I always thinking about when I got hired in 2,008, and how different librarianship was even back then, like there were people who kind of prided themselves knowing which books to go to for a particular piece, of information
I've been telling that story in in our presentations to classes this this just like I've been talking about You know.
This is how it used to work. You used to walk up there was like a gatekeeper, you know, to use the terminology of the day Right?
Yeah.
And that person knew which book had that piece of information, and they they were.
I was at a public, I was a public library then, but no absolutely.
And now I talk about I don't even. I'm not pretending that I know most of the subject headings anymore.
And it was wasn't wasn't very long
I just go and do a search and have my search. Inform me as to what the subject heading should be.
Yeah.
But but these people had yeah, in the public library. I there, I mean, we're talking about 1,200 reference books, and they had a mind. Map.
That was just incredible.
I would never have survived in that environment.
Oh, and to know how to use things. I remember using the poetry index and things that would there, you know, that's what we had to use.
Right.
Yeah, I started in 2,000. So things were really different.
And so I started when you know, they brought me in, because none of the others knew how to use email or the Internet or anything.
So it was really bad. Yeah, 3 women on the, you know, in their seventies, pretty much.
So
And you think they would have known, but they weren't very, you know.
They did other stuff that there we had a a previous librarian come in, and he would volunteer, and he was the one who knew the collection like the back of his hand He had purchased all the books, and so I really learned a lot from him Now it's Probably all useless but I probably
still will remember, like, Oh, you can get this from that book.
oh, I think it was called Reference mandate. Can you remember still work in a biomedical library?
So it was like reference now, like, find out how much the kidney ways, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Brett Red ready, Ready reference. They called it right?
Like all these little tidbits. Yes, all of that stuff.
Was just like the impact factor here. That's great.
Well, guys, I'm gonna have to go. This has been really helpful and very enjoyable.
So. Thank you, Michael.
well, thank you. And I told you guys all You didn't have to hang out the whole time, But good thing you did, cause I I really have no idea what I'm doing.
It was helpful
Yeah.
obscure things like that that. He taught me
Still. So. Thank you very much.
Bye.
You do
Bye.
Does she go by Patty or Patricia
I think, Patty
It's so hard on zoom, because they take our sso names right and and put that, and I I have changed my name in Zoom.
Yeah.
And it used to even say, you know, they used to be a checkbox like, save for future meetings, right?
And it never works. So now I've just stopped doing it in most contexts.
That's right.
I mean occasionally people will, and I don't know why, because but it doesn't bother me.
Okay, Jeffrey, does anyone call you Jeffrey?
I've been saying, Patty.
So it I am. I am Michael on this campus, because, like everywhere you ever go, there's already somebody right?
So there's there's the person who's in charge of our distance.
And does anyone call you Mike
Education is named Mike SMS Hammer. So in any meeting, if someone says Mike, then they mean Mike speds hammer because he's he's involved in every department.
Everyone knows him, and so then, by default, I just become Michael, and every meeting even though I don't really have a preference either way.
I've also changed my multiple times, and it no longer allows you to really keep track of it.
Yeah, they meet.
And then I just stop caring
yeah, a lot. Of people call me Mike, I would say.
but again I'm I'm pretty. I pretty much couldn't go back and forth.
So do you go by, Mike, outside of work
It doesn't really matter. It's just that I've just gotten used to that, because at my previous job I was the mic because somebody was already the Michael.
So it it's just whichever whichever Mic, related, you know, Michael related term is left.
Yeah.
That's what I get called
Yeah, his name's Elizabeth Megan.
Now
We had 3 Elizabeth's at a time, so that was fun.
Have, the
At at the county library. I worked at I think there was a point in time I don't think this is an exaggeration where something like 15% of the people who worked in reference and children's You know basically library.
And and library assistance, not other parts of the library were named Kathy, or some variation of Kathy.
Yeah.
Well, I'm gonna head out. I'm gonna I have my global chat.
Pam. I don't know. There's just like these names that are so common in certain generations
There was just in list, Kathy, so you would say, Kathy, and people would be like, We have no idea what you're talking about.
I have to start in 10 min. I'm gonna take a quick break before I start that for the next 2 h
What is global chat.
for first, for spring share for the loop chat. Yeah.
Okay.
So where you answer for you know all of the queues and it's this is There is no stopping it between 2 and 4.
Yeah. That's no downtime. Yeah, I've seen I've seen your name on some of ours, Lauren.
Thank you for yourself
It? Is Oh, yeah, you're welcome. So we get a lot. I try to avoid a lot of those Uk questions.
Yeah, right to help with with referencing. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
relevance, alright. I'm gonna head out too.
so I slow and answering those ones. Yes, with referencing at Harvard, but particular to their school, and and there'll be some obscure like law like I don't know how your laws work
Oh, okay, we're not doing that
you know I'll I'll leave it open for 8 min.
Yeah.
But yeah, I don't. I don't expect anyone else. Thank you both for being here. I really appreciate it.
I think you could probably shut it down. Anything
yeah, do you think we should do another one next week?
Take care!
You're welcome.
I don't think it's needed
And I think people I think someone needs to send out the message that I heard.
I'll ask Parisa who's our rep?
I don't know
If they are going to send it out, because I think that's that's the question that everyone has.
Yes, no. Maybe so. Yeah, I I feel like the only questions people are gonna have now is what the heck is wrong with this thing.
Do we Do we submit or not? So I'll find out.
Yeah, right?
Right yep.
And nudge someone